tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post2637502662370445756..comments2024-03-28T00:31:13.472-07:00Comments on <em>Archimago's Musings</em>: ANALYSIS: DSD-to-PCM 2015 - foobar SACD Plug-In, AuI ConverteR, noise & impulse response...Archimagohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-68791306120496169882022-11-13T14:36:37.848-08:002022-11-13T14:36:37.848-08:00Hi !
Super Audio CD Signal Properties specificatio...Hi !<br />Super Audio CD Signal Properties specifications by Philips and Sony, version 1.3, annex E, advises a low pass filter with a maximum cut off frequency of 50 kHz and a minimum slope of 30 dB/octave. This specifications are described as "informative", not "normative. So it's up to the designer to implement different filter. Scytaleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12547876266976589863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-60789560416932750382019-12-04T07:44:35.733-08:002019-12-04T07:44:35.733-08:00I have now used EZ CD Music Converter because its ...I have now used EZ CD Music Converter because its Ulta High precision DSD to PCM gives me the best audio quality. Have you tested it ? It Is free download at https://www.poikosoft.com/music-converter<br /><br />Thanks for the great professional audio blog.Steve Elkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06526134049886264556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-25858954971981311202015-04-26T16:24:11.598-07:002015-04-26T16:24:11.598-07:00Hey, Archimago!
Which Precision setting did you u...Hey, Archimago!<br /><br />Which Precision setting did you use in foo_sacd on your final experiment (the one where you added the Izotope RX 30kHz filter)?A Pair Of Eyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347160331176219282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-36101881088012695202015-04-25T19:04:19.171-07:002015-04-25T19:04:19.171-07:00Right, essentially the sound of the PS3. There is ...Right, essentially the sound of the PS3. There is a Wikipedia PS3 article, however I like this one. http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html<br /><br />There's also an aftermarket analog cable for the PS3, however HDMI does both stereo and multichannel in the digital domain. <br /><br />Used PS3s are very common ~$90USD.<br /><br />I'll be watching for the review.Bill Lordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069621631802784406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-47295041296880744282015-04-17T08:01:38.054-07:002015-04-17T08:01:38.054-07:00Thank you!
Absolutely, let's do 176kHz. I wil...Thank you!<br /><br />Absolutely, let's do 176kHz. I will use the newest SoX 14.4.2 and use the settings for VHQ Linear and VHQ Minimum phase as can be seen on http://src.infinitewave.ca/.<br /><br />In fact, here's the command line I plan to use:<br />VHQ Linear phase:<br />sox xxx.wav -b 24 xxx_out.wav rate -v -s 176400<br /><br />VHQ Minimum phase:<br />sox xxx.wav -b 24 xxx_out.wav Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-48462469159187262342015-04-17T03:39:03.089-07:002015-04-17T03:39:03.089-07:00Hi Archimago
Yes you can take my two excerpts in ...Hi Archimago<br /><br />Yes you can take my two excerpts in sense of "fair use".<br /><br />So with the Upsampling (I would prefer 176k4 instead of 192k to have a more clearer process) you want to get rid of the main effect of the hardware upsampling of the DAC chip and leave mainly the effect of the software oversampling filter. I understand.<br /><br />Do you have the impulse responseJR_Audiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00547557948411188806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-73114952294911242032015-04-16T22:14:49.672-07:002015-04-16T22:14:49.672-07:00Fantastic Juergen! I'll have a listen on the T...Fantastic Juergen! I'll have a listen on the Teac. I had a quick listen at work and they clearly sound amazingly recorded.<br /><br />Here's an idea.<br /><br />Would you be OK if I utilized the 2 samples to run a little blind test for the readers here given the quality of the work? Here's the gist:<br />Each sample: strings / mandolin will be upsampled with SoX to 24/192.<br /><br />Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-50280159835559843922015-04-16T08:38:45.007-07:002015-04-16T08:38:45.007-07:00Hi Archimago
Yes, with 44k1 material, the differe...Hi Archimago<br /><br />Yes, with 44k1 material, the difference between different oversampling filters is more obvious, as with higher sample rates.<br /><br />I would give you also two examples from my recordings. Both are made in pure stereo, so only 2 cardioid condenser microphones in equivalent arrangement (similar ORTF, OSS, NOS, ...) without compressors, without limiters, without reverb or JR_Audiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00547557948411188806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-74769672374172635902015-04-15T20:12:24.419-07:002015-04-15T20:12:24.419-07:00Hi Juergen,
I'll have a listen again in the ne...Hi Juergen,<br />I'll have a listen again in the next couple nights when I have time to 'Quiet Winter Nights' on the speakers with different filter settings on the TEAC UD501 as suggested...<br /><br />So that I'm clear, you are suggesting that I listen to a 44.1kHz version, right? I'm assuming that with higher sampling rates, the effect from the antialiasing filter would be Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-6272058547280821902015-04-14T21:17:25.023-07:002015-04-14T21:17:25.023-07:00Dear Archimago
Please try the different filter se...Dear Archimago<br /><br />Please try the different filter settings of your UD501 again, with minimum miked recordings in real rooms and listen over loudspeakers (instead of headphones).<br /><br />In the other blog you mentioned, that you haven't heard any difference of the different DSD to PCM converters, while listening to your HD800. I mentioned, that the audible difference of the JR_Audiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00547557948411188806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-85679880896705892272015-04-14T20:25:11.932-07:002015-04-14T20:25:11.932-07:00Thanks for the detailed feedback Yuri. Great to he...Thanks for the detailed feedback Yuri. Great to hear from developers who get their hands dirty with the actual coding/math/technical details.<br /><br />I must say that what you have done is bold :-). Strong filtering at 20kHz (for DSD audio despite all those who claimed in the old days that DSD64 was capable of up to 100kHz!), steep linear phase filtering to boot (forget the audiophile guys and Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-54628580243988396522015-04-14T20:10:17.137-07:002015-04-14T20:10:17.137-07:00Interesting idea. It would in essence be measureme...Interesting idea. It would in essence be measurement of the audio quality output from the PS3.<br /><br />Unfortunately my older model PS3 died last year (which sadly also means I'm unable to rip new SACDs for the time being) so I can't run the test at this time.<br /><br />Also, I wonder with the different hardware revisions whether there has been significant change in the DAC for the Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-83115464740375218202015-04-14T19:48:13.252-07:002015-04-14T19:48:13.252-07:00Cool Bill!
Looks like QAudio is by appointment on...Cool Bill!<br /><br />Looks like QAudio is by appointment only so unlikely to visit... But The Audio Lab looks possible when I'm near Harvard.Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-87626704403881144842015-04-14T19:00:30.900-07:002015-04-14T19:00:30.900-07:00Hi evgeniy,
Thanks for the feedback. Yes I was usi...Hi evgeniy,<br />Thanks for the feedback. Yes I was using the "Direct" setting with SACD Plugin hence the lower quality 30kHz filtering results.<br /><br />BTW. Also, I've noticed some differences between different versions of the RightMark tool; including differences between the free and PRO versions. There was clearly a change in the test signal between 6.3 and 6.4. We're Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-79094637776546927312015-04-14T18:53:45.350-07:002015-04-14T18:53:45.350-07:00Hi Mnyb...
Back in the "old" days when ...Hi Mnyb...<br /><br />Back in the "old" days when I had my Sony SCD-1, the default hardware filter was set at 50kHz I believe. I'm not sure if the SACD specs officially recommends this as the roll-off filter frequency though... Clearly there's significant amount of noise generally seen from 20kHz onward already.<br />Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-61962405085484688772015-04-13T05:00:08.403-07:002015-04-13T05:00:08.403-07:004. AuI ConverteR 48x44’s minimal phase filters
...4. AuI ConverteR 48x44’s minimal phase filters<br /> <br /> AuI default use linear phase filters. In Settings window /General tab possible turn to minimal phase filter mode.<br /> Phase response of AuI’s minimal phase filter very close to linear form.<br /> <br /> Need consider that pre-ringing artifacts for minimal phase filter moved behind to front of output (converted) signal.<br Yuri Korzunovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08930021488629949019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-26445065222116634122015-04-13T04:59:35.152-07:002015-04-13T04:59:35.152-07:002. About high frequency noise for some high resolu...2. About high frequency noise for some high resolution records<br /> As I assume, and how wrote in the article http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=1739<br /> DXD records is not pure PCM. DXD has high frequency noise what, as I assume, inheritable from DSD.<br /> <br /> I got feedback from AuI’s users about noise removing by converting with AuI ConverteR without resampling.<br /><br /> Yuri Korzunovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08930021488629949019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-48407426633562304342015-04-13T04:59:13.157-07:002015-04-13T04:59:13.157-07:00Hi Archimago,
Thank you for testing my audio conv...Hi Archimago,<br /><br />Thank you for testing my audio converter AuI ConverteR 48x44.<br /><br />I want add some details:<br /><br />1. Used "brick-wall" filter with cut under 20 kHz allow pass by any possible ultrasound troubles for some hardware and/or playback software (in single system with hardware).<br /> <br /> I suppose any hardware has the best (for itself) features in Yuri Korzunovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08930021488629949019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-50236739941360677922015-04-12T16:29:25.545-07:002015-04-12T16:29:25.545-07:00I've been following your great analysis! Excel...I've been following your great analysis! Excellent work!<br /><br /> I request that, should you return to DSD measurements, that you use your 24/96 signal and convert to DSD using Korg's AudioGate 3.XX and burn a DSD Disc (DVD). Place the DSD Disc into a PS3 and measure the HDMI and Analog outputs. The PS3 plays DSD Disc however, converts to 24/192 PCM on the fly.<br /><br />This would beBill Lordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069621631802784406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-81724656886522910282015-04-12T11:31:08.131-07:002015-04-12T11:31:08.131-07:00Cambridge, Just off the Red Line, both near Harvar...Cambridge, Just off the Red Line, both near Harvard/MIT.<br /><br />http://www.theaudiolab.com<br /><br />http://qaudio.comBill Lordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069621631802784406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-3749256604454638502015-04-12T09:16:07.686-07:002015-04-12T09:16:07.686-07:00Conclusion :
Saracon is all-good, "reference...Conclusion :<br /><br />Saracon is all-good, "reference tool" for DSD conversion, but it's usability isn't fine for me.<br />Excellent HF suppression filter in both modes, DSD64 and DSD128.<br /><br />Tool from one forum for "all-in-one" conversion with Saracon, unfortunately, isn't fine for me.<br /><br />Foobar SACD plugin : (sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/evgeniyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12990464913396856321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-52950315038104394432015-04-12T09:15:50.626-07:002015-04-12T09:15:50.626-07:00(my results)
small comparison of converters.
1) ...(my results)<br /><br />small comparison of converters.<br /><br />1) generate test files, RMAA 6.4<br />24bit 88.2 kHz<br /><br />2) convert to dsd64 and dsd128 :<br /><br />software : Saracon<br />gain: 0db<br />8th order<br /><br />3) conversion to pcm 24bit 88.2 :<br />(all tests in 24 / 88 mode)<br />3.1) Saracon<br />gain 0db<br />tpdf dither<br /><br />3.2)<br />foobar old version: 1.1.8 (evgeniyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12990464913396856321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-21641424556356162552015-04-12T09:10:01.588-07:002015-04-12T09:10:01.588-07:00Hi
Are you tested Foobar SACD plug-in in mode &quo...Hi<br />Are you tested Foobar SACD plug-in in mode "Direct 30 kHz filter" or in mode "Installable 30 kHz filter" ?<br />In my mesurements "Installable 30 kHz filter" works much more precise, than "Direct".<br />Results is independent from type of calculations (integer, float, double).evgeniyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12990464913396856321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-1775987138143835362015-04-11T22:06:18.430-07:002015-04-11T22:06:18.430-07:00A comment regarding Low pass filters , the Sony sc...A comment regarding Low pass filters , the Sony scarlet book specify some sort of low pass filter for SACD players ( DSD64 i assume ) ,so the intention has always been that some of this noise should be removed .<br /><br />What are we doing when converting to PCM ? If we miss to use a filter or don't filter enough we can end up with playback that includes more ultrasonic noise than the Mnybhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18176512305785768525noreply@blogger.com