tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post2772171516696656736..comments2024-03-28T20:21:36.177-07:00Comments on <em>Archimago's Musings</em>: MEASUREMENTS: AudioQuest Dragonfly Black 1.5 - PART 2 (On "MQA Rendering")Archimagohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-83084989747978135042021-06-21T00:41:26.492-07:002021-06-21T00:41:26.492-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.vstappshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07914154220781923315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-22455977346472876602017-09-22T01:53:43.821-07:002017-09-22T01:53:43.821-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.harada57https://www.blogger.com/profile/06015023155124017905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-14622774605704328382017-07-07T04:37:23.466-07:002017-07-07T04:37:23.466-07:00Hi Archimago and Iarssc,
What tools are available...Hi Archimago and Iarssc, <br />What tools are available to verify the claims by MQA that the time-smear in air is as significantly reduced by a factor of 10 or not..? With nowadays DSP software tools like DIRAC, Trinov, DEQX and others, both impulse response and frequency response is being manipulated in the digital domain to a far larger extend than what MQA seems to do. Is'nt it very Peter Vethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04767091853890678461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-65027779404035371422017-07-05T13:21:36.482-07:002017-07-05T13:21:36.482-07:00I agree with most everything posted here. Thus not...I agree with most everything posted here. Thus not sure where the market is for MQA? Most audiophiles are skeptical and the average consumer doesn't really care.<br /><br />I'm thinking the reason they do unnecessary lossy compression is so the "MQA" process looks more complicated than it really is. ie a set of processes, rather than some DSP deblurring process that could Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301882003865440092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-15593077539076112832017-07-05T08:32:30.297-07:002017-07-05T08:32:30.297-07:00Greetings Mark! Nice seeing you here as usual...
...Greetings Mark! Nice seeing you here as usual...<br /><br />Thanks for the note from the former Meridian employee. Interesting. Who knows, maybe there's some element of the MLP compression algo code still in there.<br /><br />It's unfortunate that they still have not encoded your tracks! This really is fishy and I think speaks poorly for at least some reasonable level of transparency Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-34251062804116787582017-07-05T08:12:10.035-07:002017-07-05T08:12:10.035-07:00Who knows Larry.
In any event, I think MQA needs ...Who knows Larry.<br /><br />In any event, I think MQA needs to not under-estimate the importance of the consumer's curiosity and not try to pull the wool over the eyes of audiophiles. If we read around the forums, despite glowing reviews from the audiophile press, there is clearly no strong tendency towards listeners showing a preference for the sound of the TIDAL "Master" playback.Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-61165886924131483292017-07-04T08:11:35.856-07:002017-07-04T08:11:35.856-07:00Joe, great work here. And it's so nice to see ...Joe, great work here. And it's so nice to see comments from interested and intelligent individuals. <br /><br />At the recent LA Audio Show I got chatting with a former Meridian employee that told me about the MLP evolution/process and how Meridian kept the streaming rights when MLP became Dolby THD for Blu-ray discs. There is some original MLP DNA in the new MQA (sorry for the acronym soup!)Dr. AIXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16427937101167124860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-79998485584841183972017-07-01T10:43:57.126-07:002017-07-01T10:43:57.126-07:00Yes...the Studio Master should be the best with no...Yes...the Studio Master should be the best with nowadays technology. But why do top-rated labels like 2L and Unamas with very experienced sound-engineers who record in DSD or even in DXD 24/384 PCM still claim the MQA version sounds best..? Is this for marketing and sales reasons or is it true? Unfortunately I cannot compare the DXD or DSD files with my Unamas and 2L albums.. But MQA sounds Peter Vethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04767091853890678461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-38152024577917279862017-07-01T10:37:49.101-07:002017-07-01T10:37:49.101-07:00Thanks Mans and Archimago for your replies. Beside...Thanks Mans and Archimago for your replies. Besides the backward engineering efforts, I suppose it is of importance to search for methods how both 'blurring'of sound will occur due to A/D errors as well how this can be 'de-blurred' It would be nice if MQA would provide some exaggerated 'blurred' sound examples which are clearly audible. If the algorithm is capable to Peter Vethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04767091853890678461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-81690499591404814992017-07-01T07:39:32.861-07:002017-07-01T07:39:32.861-07:00Yes, I'm surprised with the limited informatio...Yes, I'm surprised with the limited information Gordon has been given. I imagine he signed an NDA? I wonder why they don't prohibit manufacturers from making any comments?? We can just assume they don't want anyyone to know the truth.Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301882003865440092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-15599431940508774912017-07-01T07:20:09.017-07:002017-07-01T07:20:09.017-07:00Hey Larry,
You'd think so!
I'm rather sur...Hey Larry,<br />You'd think so!<br /><br />I'm rather surprised that MQA even seems to limit significantly what they tell manufacturers that implement their tech...Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-68545270374544940132017-07-01T07:18:12.127-07:002017-07-01T07:18:12.127-07:00Hi larssc,
Do you know of any research that sugges...Hi larssc,<br />Do you know of any research that suggests a need for 125kHz/250kHz sample rate? Is there any evidence that whatever time domain improvements achieved by MQA overcomes the gross frequency domain distortions we're seeing even with an actual Decode and Render as in the "Simple Symphony" sample above which seems to bury actual detail in the non-MQA 24/192 playback?<br />Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-45395284962593947002017-07-01T07:09:54.626-07:002017-07-01T07:09:54.626-07:00Nice Mans! Fantastic further look at the filters a...Nice Mans! Fantastic further look at the filters and effects...<br /><br />Will get in touch soon with more :-). Currently out of town and away from my main workstation.Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-32238339225848585902017-07-01T07:06:11.733-07:002017-07-01T07:06:11.733-07:00Ricochet,
So long as the Internet speed is capable...Ricochet,<br />So long as the Internet speed is capable of keeping up with the audio data stream, we could theoretically send/receive at whatever lossless bit-depth and samplerate. 32/768 over a fibre data connection? No problem...<br /><br />The issue is of course whether we can hear the difference. As I have expressed in the past:<br />http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/03/Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-58763772964707897292017-07-01T06:43:07.466-07:002017-07-01T06:43:07.466-07:00Thanks for the note Pedro,
As Mans noted, it'...Thanks for the note Pedro,<br /><br />As Mans noted, it's really hard to know what MQA is referring to with the claims about "(de)blurring". I think it would be interesting if they provided more actual information about what they're specifically addressing with these time domain claims.<br /><br />Unless we know the metrics they're targeting, it's hard to understand whatArchimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-54023601209084093572017-06-30T08:16:39.157-07:002017-06-30T08:16:39.157-07:00Why is MQA so secretive about it's process any...Why is MQA so secretive about it's process anyway? If it's as great as they say then they should tell the pubic exactly how it's done by publishing every detail. After all it's patented right?Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301882003865440092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-70973899195045087752017-06-30T01:40:41.204-07:002017-06-30T01:40:41.204-07:00"Notice how MQA keeps harping on the idea of ..."Notice how MQA keeps harping on the idea of "smearing" in digital audio, and emphasizing "time domain" (While you harp on frequency response?)<br /><br />Yes I do. Like you, I expect more inaudible distortion when using minimal filtering. Why don't you measure ( if you can) the difference in transient response (precision). If the resolving of " timing larsschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14373814310608229873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-75913753913381371582017-06-29T16:53:46.593-07:002017-06-29T16:53:46.593-07:00Arch, indeed, really enjoying the sunshine on the ...Arch, indeed, really enjoying the sunshine on the Sunshine Coast, and Whistler, as I am sure you are in Vancouver! <br /><br />I wonder about the audibility of MQA’s render digital filters when a typical loudspeakers timing distortion is orders of magnitude greater than any of the filter shapes you have presented… Even the post ringing in MQA 2 filter is quite likely inaudible as you explain in Mitchcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15383836822706500840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-20820795830740591312017-06-29T11:40:33.093-07:002017-06-29T11:40:33.093-07:00The speed of sound is irrelevant since it is very ...The speed of sound is irrelevant since it is very close to constant for audio frequencies.<br /><br />The attenuation of sound in air increases with frequency. Perhaps this low-pass effect is what Stuart has in mind. I haven't seen anything beyond vague references to "blurring" so it's hard to tell.Mans Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16079233294599701785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-71150697246233446892017-06-29T11:18:03.467-07:002017-06-29T11:18:03.467-07:00Some additional thoughts and graphs: https://www.c...Some additional thoughts and graphs: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30572-mqa-technical-analysis/?page=20Mans Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16079233294599701785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-8760932261590177442017-06-29T04:12:51.914-07:002017-06-29T04:12:51.914-07:00No, sound travels 3.4mm in 10uS (340 m/s)No, sound travels 3.4mm in 10uS (340 m/s)ianrthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03753850914457390256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-37185232007300182942017-06-29T01:38:10.193-07:002017-06-29T01:38:10.193-07:00Is it me (as in I am a big dummy) or is all this M...Is it me (as in I am a big dummy) or is all this MQA and fancy high bit depth features irrelevant as streaming (quality) really depends on the type/speed of internet/wi-fi connection?Ricochethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01998266674685427729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-71375441103364685662017-06-27T09:09:24.860-07:002017-06-27T09:09:24.860-07:00Hi Archimago, I am positively surprised by your ps...Hi Archimago, I am positively surprised by your pseudo-MQA' impulse responses, especially MQA-4 seems almost perfect. You are correct to mention that 'although certain features may be uncovered, it doesn't mean these features are actually being used in real MQA-encoded music out there' MQA claims that for conventional 24/192 recordings, time-smear is around 100µs and that 3µs is Peter Vethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04767091853890678461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-8048453797698896042017-06-27T08:58:29.785-07:002017-06-27T08:58:29.785-07:00The sample rate indicated by software players as w...The sample rate indicated by software players as well as MQA DACs is whatever the MQA metadata reports as the original sample rate, so you can't reliably tell from this what is actually being sent to the DAC. For the Beyonce album I believe the original rate is 44.1 kHz. Since the purpose of MQA is apparently to impose its leaky filters, there will always be some upsampling using said filtersMans Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16079233294599701785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-87879624914948360612017-06-27T01:45:13.350-07:002017-06-27T01:45:13.350-07:00Hi Mans
Thank you for your feedback. I was skepti...Hi Mans<br /><br />Thank you for your feedback. I was skeptical what assumption is right and what is wrong. So I made some measurements comparing a song of Beyonce – Lemonade MQA Master stream. <br /><br />With Bit-Streaming Beyonce Lemonade via Roon to Meridian Explorer 2 (v1717) and to Mytek Brooklyn (v2.35), both recognize this steam as MQA (blue) and do play it back as 44k1 24 Bit MQA. The JR_Audiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00547557948411188806noreply@blogger.com