tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post4719610657880562305..comments2024-03-18T18:53:43.090-07:00Comments on <em>Archimago's Musings</em>: MUSINGS: A quick discussion on what's OBJECTIVE and what's SUBJECTIVE (alas, more MQA-related stuff).Archimagohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-27942619127062396972018-03-24T10:49:38.554-07:002018-03-24T10:49:38.554-07:00Indeed the analog null-tests show small difference...Indeed the analog null-tests show small differences caused by 2 clocks not being in sync. Both the playback and recording clocks are 'free running' and thus mostly do not 'sample' at the exact same time causing small differences in the actual 'null' which would not have been there had both the playback and recording been done with equipment that was connected to a master solderdudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00391699689539064581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-49923484575930063182018-03-24T10:15:24.835-07:002018-03-24T10:15:24.835-07:00Hi Ka Yue,
I agree with Solderdude. Devices these ...Hi Ka Yue,<br />I agree with Solderdude. Devices these days typically have multiple clocks but of course many subsystems are asynchronous. Ultimately, what is important for audio is reasonable accuracy of the clock used by the DAC in terms of target frequency so the correct pitch is achieved and of course making sure the clock stability is accurate (low jitter).<br /><br />Over the years, I have Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-23125353081565625342018-03-24T09:47:55.338-07:002018-03-24T09:47:55.338-07:00Thanks for the note Steven,
Yes, that is a good po...Thanks for the note Steven,<br />Yes, that is a good point that subjective opinions can be adjudicated as "wrong" in phantom switch situations. But that is assuming that the person himself/herself has <em>insight</em>!<br /><br />For example someone running a test with some exotic speaker cable and claiming to hear a difference may in truth discover later that he didn't switch the Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-70094315507923319962018-03-24T09:34:52.558-07:002018-03-24T09:34:52.558-07:00Exactly, there is danger here if the "busines...Exactly, there is danger here if the "business model" extends too broadly and affects consumer options. This was the basic rationale for the 3rd point in my Computer Audiophile article.<br /><br />The bottom line is potentially as simple as protection of "crown jewels". The purposeful restriction from allowing consumers that option of acquiring true "studio master" Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-44704469029958241372018-03-24T09:26:18.074-07:002018-03-24T09:26:18.074-07:00Well said therationalaudiophile,
Indeed I also bel...Well said <em>therationalaudiophile</em>,<br />Indeed I also believe there is a balance to strike and what you use the word "rationality" to describe is a level of "informed reality" I like to see.<br /><br />For me, I've always thought that in life as well as audiophilia, we must have a basic level of being "more objective" in being sure we understand and "Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-60678871038772211022018-03-24T08:55:42.013-07:002018-03-24T08:55:42.013-07:00Thoughtful analysis Gnu.
Yes, there are fundament...Thoughtful analysis Gnu.<br /><br />Yes, there are fundamental issues here of agreed-upon definitions that we all can apply to "meat-space". Clearly what you're also getting at beyond the <em>content</em> of thought is a concern around certain individual's thought <em>form</em>, the ability for insight and by extension applying this to logical discussion of the abstract.<br /><Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-24002328988726112532018-03-24T08:49:30.864-07:002018-03-24T08:49:30.864-07:00They do.
How much different clock signals there ...They do. <br /><br />How much different clock signals there are (including derived or synchronised) depends on the internal circuitery and functionality.<br /><br />There are audiophiles that claim to hear differences between clocks. <br /><br />All digital circuits have 1 or more clocks. They determine the pace in which the digital signals pass through the digital circuits.<br /><br />The optionsolderdudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00391699689539064581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-6661289071996471252018-03-24T08:19:36.268-07:002018-03-24T08:19:36.268-07:00Thanks for your opinion.
I have read RME ADI-2 D...Thanks for your opinion. <br /><br />I have read RME ADI-2 DAC's document, a pro gear, it explains clocks in this way: "Usually a clock section consists of an analog PLL for external synchronization and several<br />quartz oscillators for internal synchronization. " (page 53, https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf)<br /><br />If I am understanding this correctly, one think Ka Yuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09758633541037373879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-7469583197859128692018-03-23T14:10:53.647-07:002018-03-23T14:10:53.647-07:00Having an external master clock is really only imp...Having an external master clock is really only important for studio usage where effect or any other DSP, and/or more than one ADC and or DAC need to sample at the exact same time.<br /><br />That's why those clock inputs exist and master (word)clocks are available.<br /><br />You need very expensive specialised test equipment to measure clock frequency deviations and irregularities accuratelysolderdudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00391699689539064581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-49746437059634387992018-03-21T08:24:30.600-07:002018-03-21T08:24:30.600-07:00Hi Archimago,
I have read many of your posts, an...Hi Archimago, <br /><br />I have read many of your posts, and come to a conclusion that the only components that matter are speaker, amp and DAC. Which is a very good news for me :)<br /><br />Does it means what people hear from network players like (eg: Linn Klimax, Lumin D2) is the product's DAC implementation, and digital transport (eg: dCS Network Bridge) should perform exactly the same Ka Yuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09758633541037373879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-70112205215582302172018-03-20T14:45:58.417-07:002018-03-20T14:45:58.417-07:00A valiant attempt, but the 'subjectivists'...A valiant attempt, but the 'subjectivists' should know all this by now...certainly this has all been explained before to multitudes of them in multitudes of forums.<br /><br />One thing I disagree with. Opinions *can* be 'wrong', or maybe more accurately, 'not even wrong'. An example comes from a phantom switch test, where the same device/stimulus is presented twice, StevenShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08457350132948312910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-21446047321529442002018-03-19T22:32:02.920-07:002018-03-19T22:32:02.920-07:00I thought the interesting thing about Iverson'...I thought the interesting thing about Iverson's piece in Stereophile was that it focused not on the technical aspects of MQA, or on the subjective question of whether it "sounds better," but rather on the prospect of a proprietary format monopolizing the market for digital audio distribution.<br /><br />That's where the real danger lies. We can banter all day about the technicalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-70630248996461295592018-03-19T12:05:19.938-07:002018-03-19T12:05:19.938-07:00I think there is a 'third way' that is nei...I think there is a 'third way' that is neither fact nor opinion. It could be called logical deduction, or rationality, or 'Thought Experiment'. Or maybe just 'ideas'. <br /><br />It seems to me that most people don't think in these terms, and seek to reduce everything to facts or 'personality projections'. The potential for a useful outcome is limited...<br /><Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-40831582228403660072018-03-18T19:27:39.312-07:002018-03-18T19:27:39.312-07:00In the second link (https://www.head-fi.org/thread...In the second link (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-pro-dac-headamp-an-a-lot-of-more-stunning-features.837026/page-18#post-14106023), we have the fascinating quote:<br /><br />"expectation-bias is for me at least not really present"<br /><br />This is a stunning example of expectation bias as well as a breakdown of fundamental logic. i.e. a person expecting themselves not to T.S. Gnuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01308980777770053566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-46583656275331905712018-03-18T19:26:19.744-07:002018-03-18T19:26:19.744-07:00It appears that my original post edit did not take...It appears that my original post edit did not take. Before I incur the deserved wrath of the acolytes, I would like to attribute the above reference to the great philosopher Spock. I hope that this restores order in the universe and prevents any further sharpening of the bat'leth.T.S. Gnuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01308980777770053566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-48609350585800397122018-03-18T14:29:54.805-07:002018-03-18T14:29:54.805-07:00Didn't know he got banned from there, BJRMD.
...Didn't know he got banned from there, BJRMD.<br /><br />I suspect hard-core Flat Earth Society meetings would not desire to entertain the thoughts of "Round Earthers" either. Hopefully over time more will recognize the importance of objective methods to discern what is ultimately truth beyond one's own "truth".<br />Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-76386815378802955852018-03-18T14:18:53.066-07:002018-03-18T14:18:53.066-07:00Thank you for the links Techland.
Wow, those are ...Thank you for the links Techland.<br /><br />Wow, those are clearly inappropriate use of the adjective "objective" (whether implied as actually objective or even in that second link admission of "not purely objective").<br /><br />I find it fascinating how the writer, in the second link said "expectation-bias is for me at least not really present" but does not imply Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-53915230373206684622018-03-18T08:58:59.627-07:002018-03-18T08:58:59.627-07:00Good point Gnu.
In my haste to post up the reply ...Good point Gnu.<br /><br />In my haste to post up the reply yesterday, I clearly did not read deeply enough into the exact intended wording. You might be correct that perhaps subconsciously at a certain level I was hoping not to be too confrontational.<br /><br />Dale's document clearly does not represent analysis but rather a variety of opinions, some related to sound quality, others appear Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-26367065614968059042018-03-18T07:34:15.799-07:002018-03-18T07:34:15.799-07:00Head-fi is notorious for this type of thing. Reme...Head-fi is notorious for this type of thing. Remember, the NWAVGuy got banned from that site for being objective, vendor critical.BJRMDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03840322337577591292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-28786950383631959462018-03-18T06:15:25.292-07:002018-03-18T06:15:25.292-07:00It seems much worse than this. For all those snake...It seems much worse than this. For all those snake oil believers, USB cable sound difference hearers and (insert your favorite nonsense) the word 'objective' means nothing else than 'I tried it personally, so I can give objective information, comments and even reviews'. 'Subjective' for them means 'I just read it elsewhere'.<br /><br />This way 'subjective'Techlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00511548486704836818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-25812399336484913532018-03-18T02:43:02.608-07:002018-03-18T02:43:02.608-07:00It behooves one to point out that your statement, ...It behooves one to point out that your statement, "Dale's PDF notes on MQA and the comments by boulderskies invoke subjective analysis." is not using the term "analysis" as it is currently understood to be. No definition of the word "analysis" covers the scenario "I heard it and liked it." Your reasons for using the word may stem from an attempt to be T.S. Gnuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01308980777770053566noreply@blogger.com