tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post5096782060306810924..comments2024-03-28T00:31:13.472-07:00Comments on <em>Archimago's Musings</em>: MUSINGS and LISTENING: On Absolute Polarity / Phase... (And on the joy of the modern audiophile.)Archimagohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-28469569515854703822023-01-05T08:20:42.041-08:002023-01-05T08:20:42.041-08:00I am able to successfully blind test inverted pola...I am able to successfully blind test inverted polarity on many of my songs. What I initially thought was intermodulation distortion on my Moondrop Variations at 1:14 in Il Vento D'oro from the JOJO's Bizarre Adventure - Golden Wind Soundtrack when he says "golden," is actually caused by the inverted absolute polarity of the Variations. I sold them over this and would have sent Sharurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12173020908534912133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-35068292798794904692022-10-16T07:32:01.557-07:002022-10-16T07:32:01.557-07:00Thank you for highlighting this very interesting p...Thank you for highlighting this very interesting phenomenon. The difference between the two of Yamamoto's waveforms is so obvious it's not even funny. No golden ears required. Do I understand correctly that it happens because our hearing has different transfer functions for the positive and negative pressure changes?Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13586753411926201847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-30751154197132625282019-06-27T21:20:43.339-07:002019-06-27T21:20:43.339-07:00Nice one Gearbuilder!
Great gear as well you'...Nice one <em>Gearbuilder</em>!<br /><br />Great gear as well you're using to do these listening tests.<br />Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-35978144475686160642019-06-27T13:18:17.167-07:002019-06-27T13:18:17.167-07:00foo_abx 2.0.6c report
foobar2000 v1.4.5
2019-06-27...foo_abx 2.0.6c report<br />foobar2000 v1.4.5<br />2019-06-27 16:12:29<br /><br />File A: AbsolutePolarityListeningTestTone.flac<br />SHA1: c4f4e59eedb9e838e5c393c4508e1f29113591f0<br />File B: AbsolutePolarityListeningTestToneInverted.flac<br />SHA1: d093c9a9723042caf0b39d1afa8d814660100808<br /><br />Output:<br />DS : Primary Sound Driver<br />Crossfading: NO<br /><br />16:12:29 : Test started.<Gearbuilderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02907852741683440049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-58815637710293756682019-06-27T13:17:32.904-07:002019-06-27T13:17:32.904-07:00Output:
DS : Primary Sound Driver
Crossfading: NO
...Output:<br />DS : Primary Sound Driver<br />Crossfading: NO<br /><br />16:12:29 : Test started.<br />16:12:43 : 01/01<br />16:12:48 : 02/02<br />16:12:54 : 03/03<br />16:13:00 : 04/04<br />16:13:04 : 05/05<br />16:13:08 : 06/06<br />16:13:12 : 07/07<br />16:13:19 : 08/08<br />16:13:22 : 09/09<br />16:13:26 : 10/10<br />16:13:32 : 11/11<br />16:13:37 : 12/12<br />16:13:42 : 13/13<br />16:13:47 : Gearbuilderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02907852741683440049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-3504680493106209052019-06-26T12:06:54.958-07:002019-06-26T12:06:54.958-07:00Interesting. The aaauuu and uuuaaa that I heard co...Interesting. The aaauuu and uuuaaa that I heard coincided with the switching between the two sources. The inverted produces an aaa on steady notes while the non-inverted produces an uuu on steady notes (relative to the inverted). The difference between aaa and uuu seems to be the audibility of the overtones where aaa corresponds to a greater audibility of the overtones. The pronounced overtones Gearbuilderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02907852741683440049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-61537828766792297382019-06-26T10:01:31.322-07:002019-06-26T10:01:31.322-07:00Interesting observation. In my case I concentrated...Interesting observation. In my case I concentrated more on the first note attack that seems to follow the visual curve of the envelope. If you concentrate, the correct polarity note sounds more like wwaaaaauuu and the other like wwuuuuuaaa...<br /><br />Of course, listening casually both sound similar so that musically it is not really concerning.<br /><br />This reminds me of optical illusions GillesPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04012946247527660963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-19733342382662454072019-06-26T07:46:12.882-07:002019-06-26T07:46:12.882-07:00One other observation:
It was easier to hear the ...One other observation:<br /><br />It was easier to hear the effects of inversion when using the polarity switch on the front of the DAC2. This switch is instantaneous, but the foobar ABX produces a brief mute whenever sources are switched. The brief mute makes the comparison harder. To mitigate this, I unchecked the "Keep playback position when changing track" button. This way I was Gearbuilderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02907852741683440049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-2059895678197787682019-06-26T07:20:02.947-07:002019-06-26T07:20:02.947-07:00foo_abx 2.0.6c report
foobar2000 v1.4.5
2019-06-26...foo_abx 2.0.6c report<br />foobar2000 v1.4.5<br />2019-06-26 10:00:46<br /><br />File A: Trombone from Gilles [Inverted Polarity].flac<br />SHA1: cb9d20486748c6fcd56b8d949515497e3aff0ca8<br />File B: Trombone from Gilles [Normal Polarity].flac<br />SHA1: 950d5424f3741fdb677c9a2790cf72a63118f91b<br /><br />Output:<br />DS : Primary Sound Driver<br />Crossfading: NO<br /><br />10:00:46 : Test Gearbuilderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02907852741683440049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-52559103916143355792019-06-25T22:26:14.471-07:002019-06-25T22:26:14.471-07:00Hi Archimago,
In case you don't know, that mu...Hi Archimago,<br /><br />In case you don't know, that music from the game "Cheetahmen" Yamamoto-san mentioned is a masterpiece. I also made a remix 10 years ago.<br />https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6771142<br /><br />You may need to stream the video above at non busy hours (2am - 6pm Japan Time?) to ensure high quality streaming.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-29203866401830860302019-06-25T18:17:01.905-07:002019-06-25T18:17:01.905-07:00Thanks Juergen. Appreciate your mention of the dev...Thanks Juergen. Appreciate your mention of the development of the MP3 coder as well. I imagine that this effect must be something the psychoacoustic modeling systems must be interested in to maintain perceptual quality.<br /><br />I do find it interesting that typical audiophile magazines don't talk about "real" effects like this as well... I guess that's why it took me till nowArchimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-16939542919003027162019-06-25T17:43:40.773-07:002019-06-25T17:43:40.773-07:00Wow!
Very impressed Gilles. You're certainly ...Wow!<br /><br />Very impressed Gilles. You're certainly the most diligent and capable listener I know. Enjoy the music with those golden ears, man!Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-1992711763977341772019-06-25T17:36:18.599-07:002019-06-25T17:36:18.599-07:00Nice details mp...
Yeah, begin with the old "...Nice details <em>mp</em>...<br /><br />Yeah, begin with the old "not resolving enough gear" complaint for why a result isn't as expected. If that fails, then go to the next level and use the "ears not golden enough" explanation :-).<br />Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-32539238357443216392019-06-25T13:58:04.706-07:002019-06-25T13:58:04.706-07:00Yup mp. A highly important point and one we've...Yup <em>mp</em>. A highly important point and one we've seen over and over again in the audio press and among folks like Johnsen with a thesis to "sell".<br /><br />This all reminds me of jitter and how based on some people (like ahem... Ted Smith and the purveyors of USB "clean up" accessories), it too is a "major contributor" to sound. In fact, I would contend Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-39954693059886283172019-06-25T13:49:21.109-07:002019-06-25T13:49:21.109-07:00Nice work Gilles! Impressive as ever :-).
Since I...Nice work Gilles! Impressive as ever :-).<br /><br />Since I didn't find the trombone sample as easy, your result has inspired me to devote a quiet evening to the ABX testing after the kids go down.Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-13655702256403478572019-06-25T13:46:07.571-07:002019-06-25T13:46:07.571-07:00Interesting about the right-left ear difference Ya...Interesting about the right-left ear difference Yamamoto.<br /><br />It's interesting that sometimes our own biological "imperfections" actually can accentuate anomalies that perhaps we might not notice as much of otherwise! Years ago with the MP3 test, I know that some people with hearing anomalies were better able to pick up the difference between MP3 320kbps vs. lossless better Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-11753303706656567892019-06-24T21:24:16.803-07:002019-06-24T21:24:16.803-07:00Hi Archi.
2 great articles about absolute polarit...Hi Archi. <br />2 great articles about absolute polarity. Yes, this is audible especially with small ensembles or solo instruments <br />and as you have mentioned, has to do with the hair cells in the ear, together with the unsymmetrical band pass filters followed by halve wave rectifier <br />that is also responsible, the an upward tone sweep does sound different than the same sweep downward, <JR_Audiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00547557948411188806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-82125218577438255392019-06-23T14:38:29.808-07:002019-06-23T14:38:29.808-07:00I agree the more complex the music the harder it i...I agree the more complex the music the harder it is to hear the effect. And of course global polarity in multi-track recording is unreliable. Also some playing techniques like for the oboe where it is common to output sound while breathing out and in successively make the polarity unimportant. In any case this is something not primordial in overall audio quality. I did manage to find a section ofGillesPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04012946247527660963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-28440555318318062232019-06-23T10:56:53.556-07:002019-06-23T10:56:53.556-07:00One more addition if I may. Greiner wrote an artic...One more addition if I may. Greiner wrote an article about this topic in the 12/93 Audio Magazine, which can be found on line at americanradiohistory dot com archives. In an on-line forum, Clark Johnson typed that 'he had heard from a third party' that Greiner's negative findings were influenced by speakers that were not 'resolving.' This sort of critique is often heard by mphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18097217525721294832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-13776406173060418572019-06-23T08:50:09.534-07:002019-06-23T08:50:09.534-07:00At least with polarity, one can sort of argue that...At least with polarity, one can sort of argue that getting it right in the studio possibly, just possibly, and under the right conditions, very limited conditions, makes things sound better. Or at least different. Which is more than you can say for most of the tweako stuff that is sold, or propagated in audiophile-land. <br /><br />The problem as I see it is when people like Clark Johnson claimmphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18097217525721294832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-72739587439995219062019-06-23T07:25:52.289-07:002019-06-23T07:25:52.289-07:00Very interesting! I guess it’s normal that ears ha...Very interesting! I guess it’s normal that ears have a cellular directional mechanism since we locate sound in space by phase differences so there must be some absolute mechanism in each ear for comparisons to work.<br /><br />I was pretty sure of my short example’s initial preference for correct polarity even before I looked at the waveform but to be sure I did manage to run a foobar abx test GillesPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04012946247527660963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-70840651958944268172019-06-23T07:20:04.204-07:002019-06-23T07:20:04.204-07:00Found another music example, this one has more obv...Found another music example, this one has more obvious sound difference https://youtu.be/2lyg809cbWw?t=28yamamoto2002https://www.blogger.com/profile/07632174616130138137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-52014205003666587892019-06-22T13:55:54.681-07:002019-06-22T13:55:54.681-07:00Thanks for your article! Your subjective sound imp...Thanks for your article! Your subjective sound impression is interesting. My right ear had suffered middle ear otitis media in early age and its sound quality is somewhat lesser than the left ear. This may cause left/right drift of sound image. In fact I feel this right/left sound drift is the most obvious difference among all sound characteristics differences of absolute polarity :) <br /><br />yamamoto2002https://www.blogger.com/profile/07632174616130138137noreply@blogger.com