tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post7606988653964075228..comments2024-03-28T13:45:12.227-07:00Comments on <em>Archimago's Musings</em>: RESULTS: Internet Blind Test of 24-Bit vs. Dithered 16-Bit Part Deux - Daft Punk EditionArchimagohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-82036963113407799802023-09-07T04:02:21.619-07:002023-09-07T04:02:21.619-07:00Wao Its amazing article, What an interesting board...Wao Its amazing article, What an interesting board, also many thanks for so in depth review! If you don't know to change Graphic card on laptops then you can also read my this blog <a href="<a href=" rel="nofollow">How to change Graphic card on laptops</a>Tech Spothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296258038440496224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-61228528232489925542023-07-17T08:31:59.917-07:002023-07-17T08:31:59.917-07:00Sample peak at or near 0 dB is extremely common in...Sample peak at or near 0 dB is extremely common in modern recordings and remasters. <br /><br />The best 'music' for possibly hearing 16 vs 24 is when the signal is very low level, as in fadeout tails. But the playback level has to be cranked to absurd levels to do so, which isn't at all normal listening. 16 vs 24 bits at the consumer end is just another molehill made into a StevenShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08457350132948312910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-33629066694366983682023-07-17T08:27:49.045-07:002023-07-17T08:27:49.045-07:00(to be clear, I don't expect any audible diffe...(to be clear, I don't expect any audible difference between any of these except using extraordinary playback levels of quiet moments) StevenShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08457350132948312910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-40294703191421606262023-07-17T08:26:40.134-07:002023-07-17T08:26:40.134-07:00I confess I don't understand why you downconve...I confess I don't understand why you downconverted from 88/24 to 44/16, then upconverted to 44/24. Why not either 1) downsample from 88/24 to 44/24 and also downconvert from 88/24 to 44/16, and compare those; or 2) downsample from 88/24 to 44/24 , and then to 44/16 ? <br /><br /><br />StevenShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08457350132948312910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-65812545032777584762023-06-03T02:20:14.343-07:002023-06-03T02:20:14.343-07:00I see the "peak amplitude" of samples re...I see the "peak amplitude" of samples reviewed is near 0dB. This is the most difficult case to distinguish between 16 and 24 bits, because full range of 16 bits is used. This is not always, or even often, the case in real life. To be fair, samples more representative of the average situation whould have been preferable. In my sense, 24 may be useful and distinguishable when there is JCBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14625924441068323763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-15009251213725459942023-05-23T00:54:08.939-07:002023-05-23T00:54:08.939-07:00By the way, recently I started to prefer longer fi...By the way, recently I started to prefer longer filters for 44.1/48 kHz upsampling, e.g. 10-14 percent of the bandwidth starting at 95 percent passband, at the expense of some aliasing. Honzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08793049319792036050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-52166453992888491452023-05-23T00:46:31.748-07:002023-05-23T00:46:31.748-07:00On good DAC (and ADC), 24 bit recording has obvio...On good DAC (and ADC), 24 bit recording has obviously more details and better SNR that dithered 16 bit track. Of course somebody may prefer sound of 16 bit dithered version. And, 16 bit dithered is also OK, since you do not lose anything big, and on many recordings there is not much content in those additional 8 bits. So where space/bandwidth allows, I prefer 24 bit version (also when offline Honzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08793049319792036050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-31066013304821607932023-05-20T22:16:47.173-07:002023-05-20T22:16:47.173-07:00Hi Peter,
Yeah, certainly if users are not setting...Hi <em>Peter</em>,<br />Yeah, certainly if users are not setting their gear correctly, 16-bit is often the default. In the Windows world, users should at least make sure to use 24/32-bit output, or playback with ASIO/WASAPI for bit-perfect output.<br /><br />And yeah, would be nice for folks to keep at 44.1kHz so as not to resample which might be done poorly by some OS/machines.<br /><br />Alas, Archimago's Musingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14326929293463498820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-66565947598753106432023-05-20T22:09:39.246-07:002023-05-20T22:09:39.246-07:00Hey BigGuy and Prep,
Indeed, applying DR measureme...Hey <em>BigGuy</em> and <em>Prep</em>,<br />Indeed, applying DR measurement to vinyl rips even of the same mastering typically results in higher numbers. A few years ago, I wondered about this in the context of using de-clip software:<br />http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/08/musings-increasing-dynamic-range-of.html<br /><br />And also the mechanical process of vinyl cutting and playback Archimago's Musingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14326929293463498820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-42338820488534133382023-05-20T22:00:04.689-07:002023-05-20T22:00:04.689-07:00Greetings Phoenix,
Yup. Bottom line. At best it...Greetings <em>Phoenix</em>,<br />Yup. Bottom line. At <em>best</em> it's subtle (except for the Golden Ears winners of course ;-).<br /><br />At least with <em>Random Access Memories</em>, 24-bit resolution conveyed no real benefits.Archimago's Musingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14326929293463498820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-8938713018057850572023-05-20T21:56:22.032-07:002023-05-20T21:56:22.032-07:00Hey Gilles,
Sorry to hear about the expired "...Hey <em>Gilles</em>,<br />Sorry to hear about the expired "platinum ear" card ;-).<br /><br />Yeah, the position of which track is A/B can have a "precedence" effect depending on psychological state; usually with a slight preference to "B".<br /><br />Interesting about the streaming version of DSOTM pulled except Apple. I wonder what the stats look like for Archimago's Musingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14326929293463498820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-47903314943417267992023-05-20T15:44:04.415-07:002023-05-20T15:44:04.415-07:00Sorry! I omitted the link for my reference... Sorry! I omitted the link for my reference... BigGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14474014919007110245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-26392612241370585672023-05-20T11:02:58.767-07:002023-05-20T11:02:58.767-07:00The Ian Shepherd video was quite revealing and com...The Ian Shepherd video was quite revealing and compelling. Thank you. Given his objectivity he is certainly cut from the same cloth as Archimago! :-) This video shows him "remastering" another Daft Punk track... <br />HIs closing statement from the first video does say it all... "If you want to find out if the vinyl will sound better, your best bet is to listen." I wouldBigGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14474014919007110245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-39518624810671957812023-05-20T00:31:31.471-07:002023-05-20T00:31:31.471-07:00The DR meter doesn't really work for vinyl. Th...The DR meter doesn't really work for vinyl. The spikey waveform of vinyl gives a higher reading even if the production is from the same master. Then there is the question of the vinyl rip and the differences between turntable set ups and cartridges. The video below explains it well.<br />https://productionadvice.co.uk/tt-meter-not-for-vinyl/<br />Prep 74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01821201947031867789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-86368018978013856682023-05-19T09:37:00.670-07:002023-05-19T09:37:00.670-07:00Did you gather respondents' audio hardware con...Did you gather respondents' audio hardware configurations, or just the hardware identification?<br /><br />On a Mac, at least, I'm pretty sure the default is for audio hardware to be set to 16-bit. That means any audio sent to such an output device gets automatically downsampled to 16-bit. I would expect 16-bit, 24-bit, and 32-bit to all sound the same on such a configuration—maybe with aPeter Hoseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08581296527663635602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-54092892631234831532023-05-19T07:02:59.939-07:002023-05-19T07:02:59.939-07:00ADDENDUM Happened to get access to the 10th Annive...ADDENDUM Happened to get access to the 10th Anniversary release. Unfortunately the DRs are no better than those of other CD/digital releases and "Giorgio by Moroder" has a DR = 7 (JRiver analysis).BigGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14474014919007110245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-47931654048602230622023-05-18T07:22:46.069-07:002023-05-18T07:22:46.069-07:00Great investigation as always, Archimago! I found...Great investigation as always, Archimago! I found it interesting that the "Giorgio On Moroder" track is so highly regarded for sound quality but (only) measures at a DR of 8. Not being familiar with Random Access Memories myself I looked the album uo on the Dynamic Range Database <br />Interestingly the digital releases, both CD and download have significantly lower DR's than the BigGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14474014919007110245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-21038843465306372072023-05-16T09:16:27.282-07:002023-05-16T09:16:27.282-07:00If there are many files to convert, I suggest usin...If there are many files to convert, I suggest using SoX.MTBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08823327460196292782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-14834685479551160452023-05-16T08:10:55.656-07:002023-05-16T08:10:55.656-07:00Ok, so the bottom line is if you claim you can hea...Ok, so the bottom line is if you claim you can hear a big difference between a 16/44 and a 24/96 file, probably, in the words of the Rolling Stones "It was just my imagination/Running away with me." I can accept that. I sometimes think I can hear some differences, but nothing I would characterize as significant, and I'm open to accepting that it's merely a placebo effect. Phoenix Dogfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06036804649117653909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-32926501829842696492023-05-16T07:20:08.351-07:002023-05-16T07:20:08.351-07:00Hi Archimago. I may have to relinquish my ‘platinu...Hi Archimago. I may have to relinquish my ‘platinum ears’ that you awarded me in 2017 since I voted for B… Probably a time limit in this department. :-(<br /><br />If I may suggest a psycho-accoustic reason for the slight prevalence of B choices, it may simply be the normal order of listening : I didn’t know this music, so I sampled it from the A version, and when listening afterward to B, I GillesPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04012946247527660963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-54529043397807080372023-05-16T03:14:11.291-07:002023-05-16T03:14:11.291-07:00Thanks fgk,
Resampling would be detected by FFT a...Thanks fgk,<br /><br />Resampling would be detected by FFT analyses and there are already a lot of existing software capable of doing this. Naturally, the process of resampling requires a higher bit-depth than the original source and therefore bit-depth (the most extreme case would be conversions between DSD and PCM) can only be expressed in terms like ENOB vs frequency bandwidth instead of exactDtmer hkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03338331345737716991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-37464444418679077222023-05-15T23:29:45.172-07:002023-05-15T23:29:45.172-07:00Hi Bennet!
You created a great program!
However, ...Hi Bennet!<br />You created a great program! <br />However, if a 44/16 original audio file is upsampled to 96/24, the program does not help.fgkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09734672776625220548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-21915658688949125322023-05-15T19:52:23.444-07:002023-05-15T19:52:23.444-07:00Just put in a "bonus" graph Stephan to s...Just put in a "bonus" graph <em>Stephan</em> to show the noise floor with "Shaped" dithering in the current version of Audacity.Archimago's Musingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14326929293463498820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-38395845255016883642023-05-15T15:51:46.536-07:002023-05-15T15:51:46.536-07:00Oops, thanks nicoff!
Fixed the typo ;-).Oops, thanks <em>nicoff</em>!<br /><br />Fixed the typo ;-).<br />Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4781727111866727703.post-1392285572466436612023-05-15T15:49:34.772-07:002023-05-15T15:49:34.772-07:00Greetings Phil,
Yeah, I think transducers (and roo...Greetings <em>Phil</em>,<br />Yeah, I think transducers (and rooms) have been for a long time and likely will remain in the foreseeable future the most challenging fidelity-limiting products in our home systems.<br /><br />I think if one is buying music like BIS Records' classical material known to be recorded and produced to high standards, absolutely... Get the 24-bit version! Can't Archimagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08642574001287787545noreply@blogger.com