A 'more objective' take for Rational Audiophiles. Among other topics! X/Twitter:@Archimago E-Mail:archimagosmusings(at)outlook.com
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Saturday 5 October 2024
Pacific Audio Fest 2024: Part III - parting thoughts, audiophile education, speaker:amp price ratio & the future?
Hypothetical scene in Seattle...
Another year, another Pacific Audio Fest in the annals of audio shows. Looking back, this show would be the 6th of this sort I've attended and subsequently discussed on this blog over the last decade, let's see:
It's interesting reviewing some of those others over the years. I think most audiophiles will recognize that over time, not really much has changed, has it? Sure, the companies come and go, we've seen the ebb and flow of themes both in this blog as well as at the shows (for example, jitter was more of an uncertainty when AudioQuest introduced their JitterBug device in 2015). We've seen the rise of "high-end" computers and streamers (also discussed here), and these days I noticed that the companies are not as aggressive in the marketing as these products mature. Streaming may have reduced the need for local libraries, or simply that consumers themselves are comfortable with digital audio quality, the lack of sonic difference (and the "Bits Are Bits" reality).
PAF'24 this year was certainly a smaller show comparatively. Nonetheless, I hope in my writings and pictures across Part I and Part II, you've seen that even though smaller, there was still a good selection of demos to attend, technologies to consider, and price points to experience.
In this post, let's end off with some observations beyond the products and companies we saw. Let's have a look at the lectures offered this year (the ones I attended at least), thoughts about the systems, and some suggestions of things I personally would love to see in the future - even if the Industry might not be as interested in showcasing!
I. General Observations
Let's start with the general observation that PAF'24 like the others before it, are consumer-centric shows. This is good. It's not meant to be aimed at dealers trying to network (this is not an industry-oriented trade show). They spaced the floor plans out along the hotel room wings so they're not adjacent to each other to reduce noise leakage. Generally this is the case but in previous years with larger shows, the rooms can get a bit cramped.
I didn't hear any neighboring heavy bass thump in any of the rooms I visited and it's great to see that most rooms had treatments to improve the sound quality. This is very important if the reason we go to these shows is truly to listen to the sound systems as best we can with reasonably low ambient noise level in an unfamiliar space rather than to just ogle at product industrial design.
Generally I found that the company representatives were respectful, taking show attendees aside to answer questions so as not to disrupt others' listening. IMO, this is important decorum for these local consumer-oriented shows.
The big shows like AXPONA (next one May 2025, Chicago) and High-End Audio Munich (moving to Vienna in 2026) get a lot of attention which is good. The AXPONA pictures look like Rocky Mountain Audio Fest back in the day. However, I do wonder as I watch some of the videos with the masses of brands and people, what the individual consumer experience is like listening to the sounds in the show rooms especially at High-End Munich looking quite bare and maybe even quite reflective with glass and hard floors. Hey, if Vienna looks to be an improvement, maybe in a couple year I'll go visit Austria in late May with the Mrs. 🤔
The price of entry to PAF'24 was very reasonable given all the work to ship equipment in, the set-up, room rentals, etc. Single day pass was US$25, multiday US$40 and they made it free for students with ID and minors <18 years old. I've never seen stats but wondered whether students and younger folks took advantage of the free admission.
The SeaTac DoubleTree-Hilton isn't a fancy hotel compared to others (this ain't no RMAF Gaylord-Rockies Resort in Denver with waterslide!), but cozy enough, and besides, staying overnight, it's just to sleep and so long as the rooms are clean, I'm not picky. Exhibitors will need to consider other things like the quality of the Internet connection and convenience for shipping/packing/unpacking their goods; hopefully it was all adequate. The streaming sound quality seemed good enough, I didn't hear any stuttering or buffering in the rooms that were streaming.
I believe there was at least one company that didn't make it:
Hmmm, wonder what happened.
PAF announced that due to the number of regional shows and the fact that the vast majority of audio companies that present at these shows are small businesses, there won't be a PAF in 2025 but will aim at 2026 (see Lou Hinkley's discussion article). Shows run by the same organizers coming up include Capital Audio Fest in the Washington DC area in early November 2024, and the new SouthWest Audio Fest at Dallas in late March 2025 seeming to be getting larger. With some anticipated economic shakiness as we get past inflationary pressures, it'll be interesting to see how things even out over the next couple of years for companies and these audio shows. Worldwide recession certainly not off the table given the debt concerns and significant slowdown in China.
I guess we will see whether PAF comes back in 2026; that's not for awhile and given the speed of changes these days, some turmoil between now and then in the luxury consumer market would not be surprising.
Of interest, I was speaking to an exhibitor late Sunday and he told me that despite the smaller numbers of attendees this year, they made about the same amount in sales as they had at a significantly larger event earlier this year. He felt the less-rushed atmosphere was conducive to showgoers staying around, coming back for a second look/listen, and considering purchases. That's encouraging.
Unfortunately due to time constraints, I did not get a chance to see the evening live music this year which were Tony Furtado, John Reischman & Eric Thorin on Friday night and Frank-Irwin Quintet on Saturday. A couple of guys I spoke to enjoyed them.
II. Lectures
Lectures as special events have been a staple at the audiophile shows over the years. I attended two on Saturday, and the one on Sunday.
"Speaker designer panel discussion (open baffle, field coil, line array and more)"
Gary Koh / Genesis Advanced Technologies, Ken Songer / Songer Audio, Clayton Shaw / Clayton Shaw Acoustic Lab
This one was an interesting discussion plus Q&A with the various designers. Ken Songer talked about using field coils and the technology behind them, Clayton Shaw talking about open baffle, and Gary Koh discussing some of the history with the large line arrays (mentions of Arnie Nudell, IRS system, materials used for drivers, etc.). More of a "meet and greet" and stories from the past and how they got into hi-end speaker design than technical details about them. A fair amount of discussion about the "art and science balance" they feel are necessary in their work. As you can see in the picture, this was quite well attended on early Saturday right after lunch.
There was some discussion as to whether speaker driver time-alignment is of significant audibility among the panelists. This is an important one because in sales materials and audiophile reviews, they often talk about the massive importance of the time-domain yet when you look at measured speaker step responses, rarely do we see good time alignment of multi-way systems including those who tout it like Wilson Audio with their adjustment system. Exceptions being speakers like Vandersteens. Anyways, nothing was resolved 🙂; as a reminder, we can achieve excellent time-domain performance at the listening sweetspot using DSP these days.
Questions from the audience included wondering about active speakers and use of DSP to improve crossover performance. Observations were made about the pro audio world and the comparatively larger number of active speakers in that arena. The panelists commented about the nature of the audiophile culture and participants preferring to match their own amplifiers with the speakers, thus their ongoing designs using passive crossovers. "Folks at shows like these are typically not ahead of the curve" so "we have to make what people buy". As for DSP, there was general agreement that "this is the future" although of course one will always need to start off with high quality speakers.
I don't think there was any discussion about DSP room correction which could be another example of a specific potential forward-moving step which many audiophiles these days are probably still unfamiliar with even though many of us have been doing this stuff for years.
Here's Dr. David W. Robinson again speaking about audio stuff. He was here back in 2022 giving a similar kind of talk. I think in general it's important to be careful when the prefix "Dr." is put in front of the name if the talk has nothing to do with the person's doctorate degree. Let's be clear, this man is a Doctor of Education from a small religious private institution called George Fox University in Oregon with an enrollment size less than 3,000 undergrads (as per his Linkedin profile). There's no evidence of higher level education or stronger technical experience here about audio products other than using/reviewing with his own system over the years, so the "Dr." is superfluous in the audio technology context.
Attendance at the talk was small (as you can see in the picture). He did not seem to have any set agenda items or clear flow to the presentation. Like in 2022, he still has an odd fixation on DSD256/Quad-DSD and made a comment about PCM being a "dead end" for whatever reason - absolute nonsense of course. He doesn't seem to recognize that digital processing is hard if not impossible within the 1-bit PDM system so there are all kinds of limits. For example, he brought up the idea of a DSD streaming service, hinting that he had "talks" with some people about setting this up but there's no substance in his comments as to what company or any announcements to ever expect.
Seriously folks, how would a DSD(256!) streaming service even manage volume normalization among tracks? How reliable would it be to stream basic 2-channel music at about 2.76MB/s in DSD256 uncompressed (for comparison 24/192 is 1.13MB/s but can be easily losslessly compressed by another 25%+)? Coupled with the higher cost, low benefit of using such Internet bandwidth for streaming plus very likely little consumer interest - does this make sense for any business? So many obvious technical/practical issues to be resolved which I suspect he has no awareness of, he certainly didn't show much knowledge beyond pie-in-the-sky ideas!
Let's be clear here folks: SACD/DSD as a consumer music delivery system has arrived for many years already at its niche terminus.
Anyhow, there was some other odd ranting about "cult of personalities" at audio magazines (not sure which ones or what bad-blood he might have with others), that magazines aren't teaching adequately (well he had an hour and I'm not sure if he taught anyone anything useful), thinks that vinyl is good because it promotes "rituals of the passion" as opposed to the ease of streaming. He rants about bad music these days and artists like Taylor Swift - "I find it mediocre" and "we've lived through better" - cue Old Man Yells At Cloud meme. He feels a lot of the audio reporting these days is just "click bait material" and is unhappy about all those reviews of "best ever" every month and everything sounds "awesome" (I don't disagree here). And that the simplistic language in many "click bait" reviews also is evidence that "language is being debased". Sure, there are all kinds of concerns about the "The Dead Internet Theory" for example with the rise of algorithms, corporate greed, generative AI content... But that's just in general with the Internet and society, affecting well beyond audiophilia.
At one point he meandered into stuff like "corruption is happening" behind the scenes with audio reviewers getting "pay to play" (not sure what he's doing to keep the advertising and content sides of Positive Feedback separate given the ads he runs). There are also some religious themes here about "spiritual" dangers which seemed more than a little strange. To me it's bizarre that he complains that audiophiles are overly "cynical" these days! Why shouldn't we be a bit skeptical (if not cynical) about what we read and see after he talks about corruption and these moral/ethical/spiritual dangers among the audio press!? 😂
During question time, a few show-goers complained that they were not able to play their own music in the rooms. That there were barely any CD players at the show (I guess they brought their own discs). Fair concerns and a reflection of just how much digital playback has shifted away from physical media and into streaming.
“How Does Your Playback System Stack up? A Proof-of-Performance Evaluation”
Attendees will learn about electrical and acoustical noise and sound quality from a scientific perspective.
Norman Varney, A/V Room Service
Oh yeah, we've got a more formal presentation here with PowerPoint slides, measurements, and numbers to consider. 😁 Time to learn something from a man with decades of experience, certified in acoustics and audio room set-up. I see he has written articles like this one over the years for audio enthusiasts.
Varney talked about objective goals we should aim for in the sound room including low ambient noise, low reverb time, expectations around dynamic range, etc. as you can see in the slide above.
Here's a slide dealing with the descriptors of sound quality that we can use when we subjectively discuss what we hear based on various dimensions. This is important stuff which all reviewers need to be able to express when trying to be complete. While we can never know exactly what someone else heard, at least we can do our best with touching on the main sonic qualities and ideally a common language.
Mr. Varney had a handout for the attendees. He kindly sent me a PDF, reproduced below. It consists of room/system/electrical characteristics one can use as a checklist to aim for. His website for A/V RoomService, Ltd. contains more learning material and his e-mail address is on the handout for those who want to connect for consultation:
I think it's important for audiophiles to take to heart the comment at the top: "More than 90% of audiophiles are experiencing less then 50% of their equipment's potential". I'm absolutely unsurprised by that statement given the massive importance of room acoustics which is evident walking among the rooms at the show and hearing how different companies mitigate issues!
Chasing after hardware component upgrades (and God forbid, cable upgrades!) primarily without being very mindful of your system in the room would be missing out on all kinds of optimization potentials. I know, talking about rooms, optimizing space, installing room treatments might not be as sexy as what "high-end" speakers/amp/DAC/streamer one might be lusting over. However, being disciplined by looking over that list and making sure we're making the most of what we have in the long run I think would result in much greater satisfaction and probably a more healthy bank account.
IMO, these are the kinds of lectures that audio shows should strive to include on their program. There's actual core knowledge here that should be part of an Audiophile 101 course aimed at consumers.
I wish talks like this were recorded and put up on YouTube for reference. I see that Norman has a video from a couple of years ago that's worth a look:
III. Let's talk about "component price balance"- the speaker:(pre)amp price ratio specifically
Maybe this is irrelevant when it comes to audio shows but I just want to highlight the often-large relative imbalances between the price of speakers and the amplification system apparent in some rooms.
For me, this is an issue because as discussed a few weeks back on ranking "most important" components of an audio system, among the pieces in the reproduction "hardware domain", I think it's important to make sure we put more energy, time, and money into selecting and buying the loudspeakers given their importance compared to basically everything else.
Yet, when we walk around the show and we look, for example, into the Pure Audio Projects room, the ratio of speaker price (MSRP $8k) to the Pass Labs electronics (XP-22 preamp + XA60.8 amplifiers - $24k), $8k:$24k = 0.3 - the speakers are 1/3 the price of their paired Pass pre+amp electronics. This is not even including the digital or analog sources like CD player, streamer, or turntable after which the speaker price would be an even smaller fraction of the total.
We can look at other rooms and calculate this ratio like the Clayton Shaw (Caladan speakers) / LTA integrated amp system at $3.5k/$7.65k = 0.46. Or more upscale, at the Infigo/Alta room it's $60k/85k = 0.7. The Zellaton/Burmester room is one of the most imbalanced at $78k:$415k = 0.19!
On the other hand, there are systems that lean towards higher priced speakers over the preamp and amp(s) like the Wells Audio room with YG Sonja 3.2 speakers which was $100k/$51k or about 2 and the Seattle Hi-Fi room with YG Acoustics and Ayre electronics at $32.8k/$13.5 = 2.4.
The reason I bring this up should be obvious. Imagine pairing a good, affordable, modern speaker like the KEF LS50 Meta (MSRP $1.5k) with the Pass XP-22 Pre + XA60.8 Amp ($24k, 60W into 8Ω, 15W Class A) resulting in a ratio of 0.063. Alternatively, let's pair that KEF with something more modest - say the Yamaha R-N600A Integrated amp ($900 MSRP, ESS ES9010K2M DAC PCM & DSD, phono in, remote, network streaming, 80W into 8Ω @ 0.07% THD both channels driven, subwoofer out) and we have a ratio of 1.7. Despite the huge difference in that ratio, which pairing do you think would sound better?
Even if you think the KEF+Pass combination might sound better (I would not be too sure about that!), clearly the limiting device here are the little KEF LS50 Meta speakers; regardless of amp, these have limited low frequency extension, right? All that money that went into the Pass Labs components would unlikely have translated to very much sound quality difference, plus you would miss out on features like the streaming ability, built-in DAC, easily adding subwoofer, etc. with the much less expensive Yamaha integrated!
Furthermore, would audiophile friends visiting your home, seeing the KEF+Pass combination be impressed? No, I don't think so. Sure, they might marvel at the VU meter and the idea that you spent $24k on the preamp+amp set initially, but intuitively they would know that there is a significant imbalance here so whatever sense of luxury or pride one might want to portray with the Pass gear, would end up looking a little ridiculous with those small KEF speakers. Get some luxurious floor-standing speakers to match with the Pass gear, that would be impressive. Finding balance in matching components is not just a financial numbers game, but also making sure we understand the cost-benefit, and the subjective impression on others when it comes to trying to exude luxury.
Personally, I think in a reasonable audio system the speaker:(pre)amp price ratio should almost always be more than 1, that is amps (whether integrated or preamp + power amps) should almost never cost more than speakers unless we're talking about unique or collectable items. And the higher you can get this ratio, while still achieving great sound, the more respectable one might be viewed as a keen audiophile who has the skill of matching the electronics with the transducer optimally! Since I think amplifiers are very much "solved problems", price-matching speakers:amps within a certain class (the artificial distinction between "high end" and "mid-Fi") isn't too important. I believe the sound of something like the Fosi V3 Mono ($140 each) will be great with any speaker within normal power requirements in a small room regardless of price level as recently discussed.
As I said, maybe in audiophile shows this price matching doesn't matter since companies typically will want to bring the best of their best which is totally fine since showgoers probably would like to see/hear the price-no-object gear. Just that in the real world, among fellow audiophiles, I think we intuitively pay attention to gross imbalances.
Other components can certainly come into the mix price-wise. For example, I think the Ideon Absolute DAC ε asking for $47k, more than 50% the price of those massive JMF monoblock amps in the room was clearly an unbalanced way to spend money. Regardless of what claims Ideon Audio wants to make about their "distillated USB input" or 58lb CNC milled metal enclosure, that's still an ESS ES9038PRO DAC chip at the heart of this device. Regardless of how one makes a fuss about the output stage or other support electronics in the box, the chip does tell us the potential achievable fidelity and capability limits.
And don't get me started on the price of those Audio Group Denmark speaker cables from Part I or the distorted price ratios they may produce! Focus on the speakers, amps, etc. not the cables. 😲
IV. Parting shots and thoughts about consumer audio shows...
So, to end, here are some general thoughts on consumer-oriented audio shows after a decade or so of attending and what I think would be interesting to see:
1. Yes, I would encourage audiophiles to check out a local show if there's one near you. Personally, the listening experience is what's most important for me which means it's essential that the show rooms are of reasonable quality and perhaps counter to what manufacturers and dealers might want, I don't think it should be too busy. Too many people in rooms and chatting in the hallways would be distracting (and just no fun), however too few attendees will understandably make manufacturers wonder if it's worth their time and expense to attend the show.
2. While the dealers and manufacturers focus on bringing products to demo, maybe the show organizers can prioritize providing good education for audiophiles. Be selective about the presenters. If a person doesn't seem to have a clear topic to teach or is not known to be particularly effective (eg. IMO David W. Robinson was not effective having heard him in 2022 also), then let's pass.
Let's be discerning and make sure that the thoughts expressed by presenters belong in the category of facts rather than "fake news".
3. Staying on the topic of education, how about running a series like a 3-part Audiophile 101 basics course? This could be great for a 3-day show like PAF with each day the presentation addressing core topics like hardware performance, room characteristics, recording quality (eg. dynamic range, high-quality remasters), objective methods to assess fidelity, etc. This might encourage attendees to come for the whole 3 days. This will provide an opportunity to open up broad topics for discussion and might even draw younger audiophiles in so they can learn the basics, hear the lingo, develop an electronics and (psycho)acoustic foundation to understand how these things work rather than haphazard exposure to this hobby. (At PAF'24, I talked to a couple of keen younger guys first time at an audio show - I think they would have liked something like this.)
Do not fear telling it like it is! I can imagine that some companies might be afraid of teaching audiophiles a science-based curriculum as this might dissuade folks from buying into the snake oil at the show. Yes, it might, but it's still the right and honestthing to do.
Those already hooked into thousand-dollar 6' interconnects, speaker cables and fanciful tweaks are unlikely to change (but we can still give it a try). Yet I don't think young people or those with education are interested in becoming caught up in the orbit of audiophile phantasies either. So as a whole, the hobby is losing those people already. If audio shows can play a role in reviving interest in a hobby with consistently good education, showing honest products, promoting honest companies, that would be a good thing for the evolution and maybe even growth of the hobby.
What Norman Varney presented this year is a great example of what "good education" should look like grounded in understanding of the importance of room acoustics.
4. More active displays, please! Honestly guys, I don't really see the point of eye-candy with static displays. This year, I was really disappointed that Audio Group Denmark did not have their Axxess L1 ($2.75k/pair) nor L3 ($5.5k/pair) speakers in a playback room, just on static display. What a shame because they're sitting right there in the main show room unpacked and unused!
It would be fascinating hearing what those entry-priced speakers would sound like connected to "budget" but still objectively excellent components in a small room for comparison to everything else we hear at the show!
Imagine a room with a Wiim Ultra streamer ($330), playing off Qobuz or Tidal, USB out to a Topping E70 Velvet (AK4499EX) DAC ($350) with balanced XLR to Fosi Audio v3 Monoblocks ($280/pair), wired up with Blue Jeans cables (something like $200-300 total if that?). Total hardware cost easily less than $8k with the larger Axxess L3 floorstanders. This would be appropriately "balanced" in terms of price structure discussed above, emphasizing the speakers (speaker:amp ratio 19.6!). How might that sound like?!
Again, maybe there are dealers and manufacturers that would not want such a room at a "high-end" show. But that would be a lot of fun for audio consumers, wouldn't it?! In fact, it might be interesting to just show off the Axxess speakers but keep the rest of the system under an opaque sheet so listeners don't go in with visually tainted expectations. 😉 I bet some of us could do an impressive job running a kick-ass show room with these components and killer demo tracks to play for attendees! Maybe even integrate a $1k subwoofer (something like the SVS PB-2000 12" would do) to add to the low-end and show 'em how it's done with full 20Hz-to-20kHz capability on a reasonable <$10k budget.
One could also demo DSP room correction in such a system. For example that hypothetical Wiim Ultra system above has an HDMI ARC input. Other than a typical streamer connected to the USB input, one can connect a computer to a small TV with ARC support, and use this to run convolution filtering for the demo room and A/B the effect of frequency and time-domain correction in real-time with HLC. Also show off the cross-talk cancellation effect (like with the Polk Legend L800 room back in RMAF'19). And if the Planet Venus Audio DSP (see Part I) is compatible, we can try that too! A lot of potential to show off the ability to take control of our systems and mold the sound in ways that are much more powerful than just buying/selling equipment, often without knowing the objective performance gains - if any.
Again, would "high end" companies showing off products orders of magnitude higher in price, supported also by expensive cable companies want to see rooms such as this at the show? (And whose advertising budget would support putting such a room together?!)
5. Is there a way to "standardize" some of the music in the audio show? More concretely, deliberately bring good-sounding music into the audiophile show experience?
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before in other audio show discussions. Since these days it looks like physical media is not as easily accessible such that attendees can't bring their own CDs in as easily anymore, how about before the show, the organizers provide a list of songs so that each room will have access to the same music should attendees want to request from this "standard" track list?
Make this into a fun thing! Maybe as a part of the advertising process, have potential attendees submit their favorite "audiophile" tracks that will show off characteristics of a system like articulation, timbre, dynamics, pacing, etc... Maybe run a poll for audiophiles to vote for their top high-quality tracks. Make sure there's a variety of music including classical, jazz, vocals, pop, rock, electronica - maybe something like 5 tracks from each genre.
By doing this, every year, we'll see something like the "Pacific Audio Fest 2026 Demo Playlist!"; like what Mike5959 recently did with the songs I listed for PAF'2024 on Qobuz (Part I and Part II). A fun and interactive sharing exercise that over the years will provide a growing list of music that audiophiles would be exposed to. Over time, we'll be able to track which songs and artists come and go, providing an ever-growing library of "hi-fi" recordings, celebrating some of the most impressive source productions.
The idea of selecting excellent-sounding music in audio shows is not unusual. For example, at the Hong Kong AV Show, they've been including hybrid CD/SACDs they call the "The Perfect Sound" discs for attendees so they can take that home to enjoy (you can buy these online - here for 2023 and here for the 2024 show). Not only will you get to see some interesting hardware, meet up with fellow hobbyists, but possibly take home some great-sounding recordings as a memorabilia. I would imagine if you're interested in a track from the disc at any of the rooms, nobody would be averse to playing these tracks for convenient comparison between set-ups (then take the same music home to listen and compare in your own system of course).
6. I look forward to the future of what more we can do with digital processing and multichannel source content.
Clearly, straight 2-channel hi-fi reproduction is very mature at this point. This is why I've become much more interested in immersive/spatial audio these days since the increased availability of multichannel/Atmos content (as further discussed here, here, and here). The thing though is that there are currently few "high-end" products in this space (maybe new hardware platforms are needed). Who knows how that will mature or if multichannel encroaches into the current "high-end" one day. Don't forget that even with just 2 channels, we can take advantage of higher dynamic range multichannel mixes as further discussed recently.
The other thing that will be interesting in the years ahead is what happens to the anachronistic side of this hobby: turntables, cartridges, phono preamps, reel-to-reels, etc.? I do not believe it's a given that LP demand, turntable sales, phono cartridges, tapes will continue to grow. These are luxury products and demand I suspect will ebb and flow with the economy and as perceived "investments" whereas streaming will likely be less affected as commoditized content.
Audiophile companies and shows will also need to adapt and target to their audience based on demographic transitions ahead. I'm not sure if Gen X and Gen Y will have the same appetite for things like turntables; I bet many of us will just be happy to receive hand-me-down units from the Baby Boomers.
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Hmmm, unless there are truly advancements in hi-fi, maybe 6 shows are good enough for a lifetime 🙂. I think there are clearly ways to improve these experiences and make them better opportunities for hobbyists to learn, share, debate, and experience good sound.
With that, have a wonderful week ahead, audiophiles. Hope you're enjoying the music!
Some fun parting music from the prolific A.R. Rahman:
David Robinson’s career in education is not something I’d be proud of. His education and employment are a list of places my parents wouldn’t let me attend, I wouldn’t go to or let my children attend.
In audio David had his chance. I was taught audio by Tektronix engineers, and he knew many of the same people but didn’t take advantage of the opportunity.
Portland Oregon was a great place for audio education in the seventies. I’m glad I took full advantage of the opportunity. Stephen
Hey there Stephen, Yeah man, I don't know about Robinson's academic/educational career and for me it really doesn't matter other than the fact that his doctorate in that field is clearly not translatable to knowledge about audio products. The fact that his affiliation is with one of the more conservative religious colleges in America can certainly explain the deviation into "spiritual" matters.
Nothing against religious conservatism and how it can inform our moral principles and words of wisdom we can structure our lives on (within non-extreme reason of course!). But the under-the-surface implications of his comments were, how should I put it - dissonant - with what I think most hobbyists would care for! And of course what appears to be limited understanding of the technologies didn't seem to help improve the quality of the presentation.
Hi Arch- Couldn't agree more with you about the speaker price ratio in a system. And with the state of modern electronics it is more true than ever. It's too bad audiophiles have been seduced into believing the idea that the more expensive the electronics, the better. I doubt many (I won't say all) of those people can actually differentiate between their $10K or $30K stack and one costing $1-$5K. I always tell people to get the absolute best most expensive speakers they can afford and that fit their room. In today's world you could spend $1000 - $1500 on a DAC and amplifier and have GREAT sound with all the power you need. $10 K speakers and $2K electronics? Sure. Then upgrade the electronics in the future if you feel the need.
Absolutely Danny, That has been my guiding principle for years now. Declare a good space as your soundroom, then get the best speakers for your needs first. That's the upfront cost for putting in the foundation!
High-fidelity amps and DACs are not hard to get these days at very reasonable prices. If we are truly focused on sound quality and come at fidelity through a more objective lens (not bothered by those "non-utilitarian" determinants of luxury), I think we can achieve some excellent levels of performance regardless of what some of the snobs at fancy showrooms might think 😁.
After that, enjoy the music and as you suggested, we can upgrade and splurge as we please...
Might I recommend the album "Chain of Light" - a compilation of newly discovered recordings by the late great Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan? His body of work is frankly astonishing, and his voice is like nothing else.
Thanks MB, Had a look at the video, nice stuff! I see someone measured it as DR13 for the album average; good that it wasn't "remastered" for 2024. Looking forward to have a listen later today :-).
192kHz / 24Bit uncompressed stereo file will require a max 9,216 MB/s bandwidth. The calculation is 192 x 24 x 2 (Sampling rate x Bit depth x channels). FLAC compression will reduce the size by around fifty percent.
Arch, there's no need to divide the value by 8 bits. Further splitting the data serves no purpose, as no PCM player or streamer would be able to process it. You can verify this using various online audio calculators.
Hej Arch Excellent post. Just come back from another fortnight of work where the Internet bandwidth and reliability was frustratingly dire. I would like to comment on something you asked us readers in your last post which is also covered in your latest post. What have I learned from this hobby? My addiction to quality music reproduction started when I was in my thirties, Music however was a much earlier addiction. From a very young age I wanted to surround myself with music. I also wanted to play and create music, so I learned how to play the piano and the guitar. It was not until I started earning my own money that I started exploring hi-fi. Before that I was content just to hear music. Be it from a car or kitchen radio or my father’s very modest system. I was aware of high-end systems and had experienced that sound, and although impressed, it was nothing I dwelled on. After all, it was the music I wanted, and I was satisfied with what I had. I attended a lot of concerts from rock to classical and that kept me satiated. When in my thirties I was introduced to an audiophile who ran a part time basement business where the focus was more on gathering likeminded than selling anything! Here I was introduced to a music intimacy I had not previously experienced from playback. Depth, soundstage, instrument separation, timbre and dynamics. An enveloping sound that had me hooked. New to the hobby it became clear that quality sound had a very linear price to performance correlation. Or so I was instructed to believe. The magazines I read; Absolute Sound and Stereophile enforced this relationship. So, without necessary funds I bought second hand and then as my finances improved started buying new. When my family grew, enjoying my hi-fi became very limited and I found myself more and more listening to music in front of my pc. As a result, I focused on improving pc playback and it was there that I began to discover that you could get great sound from a relatively small investment. Nearfield listening became my primary source of musical enjoyment for many years, and I eventually sold all my stereo equipment. When I eventually returned to hi-fi separates there was an abundance of inexpensive products that provided excellent results. Gone was the conviction that only costly equipment would reward you. Your speakers are, however, your top priority after the room. Sadly, good speakers are still quite expensive and here I buy second hand. The room and speaker placement are of course paramount and all efforts to improve the listening space are the best investments to be made in this hobby. Audiophile magazines are to be avoided. Read them if you must for their entertainment value but not as a guide on what to buy. Stay wary of influencers and hi-fi reviewers. Treat them as you would the magazines in this hobby. (New rules by the FTC forbid compensation in return for reviews either positive or negative, whether the offer of compensation is conveyed expressly or implicitly.) Interesting to see how this will affect the YouTube influencers/reviewers! Please keep your informative and enjoyable musings going. They are a source of much instructive advice and thoughtful content. Cheers Mike
I think it's really neat how over the decades the way that audio tech changes as an indicator of the evolution, we get to enjoy excellent quality in smaller packages, more convenient, and less expensive to reach a wider audience. Some in the "old guard" seem to fight against this and somehow create an allure around the large, expensive, and inconvenient (and anachronistic like turntables and vinyl).
Interesting about the FTC ruling; I think this is the relevant portion for folks to look this up:
Buying Positive or Negative Reviews (§ 465.4): Section 465.4 prohibits a business from providing compensation or other incentives to write or create consumer reviews expressing a particular sentiment, whether positive or negative. The FTC’s commentary on this section helps explain how it might interpret the rule. It notes that this section does not prohibit all paid or incentivized consumer reviews, only those where the “business soliciting the review provides compensation or an incentive in exchange for a review expressing a particular sentiment.” (Final Rule p. 78). Additionally, the FTC notes that this section “does not apply to testimonials, only to consumer reviews, and then only to reviews that appear on a website or portion of a website dedicated to receiving and displaying such reviews.”
I got the quote from this post. Hmmmm, I guess it'll be up to the final interpretation and how they'd enforce.
Not sure if this means companies cannot just send a product to a YouTuber and tell them they can keep the item after the review which is what happens quite a bit, especially with the less expensive gear; that's an incentive of sorts, right? Here on the Musings, companies have done this and when it happens, I've indicated as such (as opposed to most of the time when I buy stuff myself or borrow from friends). Since I publish objective results, I think my opinions are at least much more tied to the results. At least in the audiophile world, maybe the FTC should incentivize objective reviews. 🙂
David Robinson’s career in education is not something I’d be proud of. His education and employment are a list of places my parents wouldn’t let me attend, I wouldn’t go to or let my children attend.
ReplyDeleteIn audio David had his chance. I was taught audio by Tektronix engineers, and he knew many of the same people but didn’t take advantage of the opportunity.
Portland Oregon was a great place for audio education in the seventies. I’m glad I took full advantage of the opportunity.
Stephen
Hey there Stephen,
DeleteYeah man, I don't know about Robinson's academic/educational career and for me it really doesn't matter other than the fact that his doctorate in that field is clearly not translatable to knowledge about audio products. The fact that his affiliation is with one of the more conservative religious colleges in America can certainly explain the deviation into "spiritual" matters.
Nothing against religious conservatism and how it can inform our moral principles and words of wisdom we can structure our lives on (within non-extreme reason of course!). But the under-the-surface implications of his comments were, how should I put it - dissonant - with what I think most hobbyists would care for! And of course what appears to be limited understanding of the technologies didn't seem to help improve the quality of the presentation.
Hi Arch-
ReplyDeleteCouldn't agree more with you about the speaker price ratio in a system.
And with the state of modern electronics it is more true than ever.
It's too bad audiophiles have been seduced into believing the idea that the more expensive the electronics, the better.
I doubt many (I won't say all) of those people can actually differentiate between their $10K or $30K stack and one costing $1-$5K.
I always tell people to get the absolute best most expensive speakers they can afford and that fit their room.
In today's world you could spend $1000 - $1500 on a DAC and amplifier and have GREAT sound with all the power you need. $10 K speakers and $2K electronics?
Sure.
Then upgrade the electronics in the future if you feel the need.
Absolutely Danny,
DeleteThat has been my guiding principle for years now. Declare a good space as your soundroom, then get the best speakers for your needs first. That's the upfront cost for putting in the foundation!
High-fidelity amps and DACs are not hard to get these days at very reasonable prices. If we are truly focused on sound quality and come at fidelity through a more objective lens (not bothered by those "non-utilitarian" determinants of luxury), I think we can achieve some excellent levels of performance regardless of what some of the snobs at fancy showrooms might think 😁.
After that, enjoy the music and as you suggested, we can upgrade and splurge as we please...
Hey Arch, great post as usual :)
ReplyDeleteMight I recommend the album "Chain of Light" - a compilation of newly discovered recordings by the late great Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan? His body of work is frankly astonishing, and his voice is like nothing else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S41g6udnIg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDi_7nrqqyU
Happy listening :)
Thanks MB,
DeleteHad a look at the video, nice stuff! I see someone measured it as DR13 for the album average; good that it wasn't "remastered" for 2024. Looking forward to have a listen later today :-).
Hi Arch,
ReplyDelete192kHz / 24Bit uncompressed stereo file will require a max 9,216 MB/s bandwidth. The calculation is 192 x 24 x 2 (Sampling rate x Bit depth x channels). FLAC compression will reduce the size by around fifty percent.
Keep up the great work!
Ran
Hey there Ranchu, in terms of megaBytes:
Delete192000 x 24-bits x 2 channels = 9216000 bps / 8-bits-per-byte / 1024-bytes-per-KB = 1,125 KB/s = 1.125MB/s
Then of course we can pass this through lossless FLAC or ALAC and achieve even lower compressed rates.
Alas, not so easy for DSD, especially DSD256!
Arch, there's no need to divide the value by 8 bits. Further splitting the data serves no purpose, as no PCM player or streamer would be able to process it. You can verify this using various online audio calculators.
DeleteThe 8 is just out of consistency as you'll see over the years, I almost always compare and report my transfer rates based on bytes rather bits...
DeleteHej Arch
ReplyDeleteExcellent post. Just come back from another fortnight of work where the Internet bandwidth and reliability was frustratingly dire. I would like to comment on something you asked us readers in your last post which is also covered in your latest post. What have I learned from this hobby?
My addiction to quality music reproduction started when I was in my thirties, Music however was a much earlier addiction. From a very young age I wanted to surround myself with music. I also wanted to play and create music, so I learned how to play the piano and the guitar. It was not until I started earning my own money that I started exploring hi-fi. Before that I was content just to hear music. Be it from a car or kitchen radio or my father’s very modest system. I was aware of high-end systems and had experienced that sound, and although impressed, it was nothing I dwelled on. After all, it was the music I wanted, and I was satisfied with what I had. I attended a lot of concerts from rock to classical and that kept me satiated.
When in my thirties I was introduced to an audiophile who ran a part time basement business where the focus was more on gathering likeminded than selling anything! Here I was introduced to a music intimacy I had not previously experienced from playback. Depth, soundstage, instrument separation, timbre and dynamics. An enveloping sound that had me hooked. New to the hobby it became clear that quality sound had a very linear price to performance correlation. Or so I was instructed to believe. The magazines I read; Absolute Sound and Stereophile enforced this relationship. So, without necessary funds I bought second hand and then as my finances improved started buying new. When my family grew, enjoying my hi-fi became very limited and I found myself more and more listening to music in front of my pc. As a result, I focused on improving pc playback and it was there that I began to discover that you could get great sound from a relatively small investment. Nearfield listening became my primary source of musical enjoyment for many years, and I eventually sold all my stereo equipment.
When I eventually returned to hi-fi separates there was an abundance of inexpensive products that provided excellent results. Gone was the conviction that only costly equipment would reward you. Your speakers are, however, your top priority after the room. Sadly, good speakers are still quite expensive and here I buy second hand. The room and speaker placement are of course paramount and all efforts to improve the listening space are the best investments to be made in this hobby. Audiophile magazines are to be avoided. Read them if you must for their entertainment value but not as a guide on what to buy. Stay wary of influencers and hi-fi reviewers. Treat them as you would the magazines in this hobby. (New rules by the FTC forbid compensation in return for reviews either positive or negative, whether the offer of compensation is conveyed expressly or implicitly.) Interesting to see how this will affect the YouTube influencers/reviewers!
Please keep your informative and enjoyable musings going. They are a source of much instructive advice and thoughtful content.
Cheers Mike
Thanks for the background and great comment Mike!
DeleteI think it's really neat how over the decades the way that audio tech changes as an indicator of the evolution, we get to enjoy excellent quality in smaller packages, more convenient, and less expensive to reach a wider audience. Some in the "old guard" seem to fight against this and somehow create an allure around the large, expensive, and inconvenient (and anachronistic like turntables and vinyl).
Interesting about the FTC ruling; I think this is the relevant portion for folks to look this up:
Buying Positive or Negative Reviews (§ 465.4): Section 465.4 prohibits a business from providing compensation or other incentives to write or create consumer reviews expressing a particular sentiment, whether positive or negative. The FTC’s commentary on this section helps explain how it might interpret the rule. It notes that this section does not prohibit all paid or incentivized consumer reviews, only those where the “business soliciting the review provides compensation or an incentive in exchange for a review expressing a particular sentiment.” (Final Rule p. 78). Additionally, the FTC notes that this section “does not apply to testimonials, only to consumer reviews, and then only to reviews that appear on a website or portion of a website dedicated to receiving and displaying such reviews.”
I got the quote from this post. Hmmmm, I guess it'll be up to the final interpretation and how they'd enforce.
Not sure if this means companies cannot just send a product to a YouTuber and tell them they can keep the item after the review which is what happens quite a bit, especially with the less expensive gear; that's an incentive of sorts, right? Here on the Musings, companies have done this and when it happens, I've indicated as such (as opposed to most of the time when I buy stuff myself or borrow from friends). Since I publish objective results, I think my opinions are at least much more tied to the results. At least in the audiophile world, maybe the FTC should incentivize objective reviews. 🙂